Cheney Finally Talks... 5 Days Later
I can say this: at least he didn't try to blame Whittington, which is more than I can say for Cheney's cronies.
But his "interview" (please, do you think Hume was allowed to ask anything not approved in triplicate prior to the meeting?) brings up more inconsistencies than understandable explanations. For instance:
Then there's this:
The vice president added, "The image of him falling is something I'll never be able to get out of my mind. I fired and there's Harry falling."
He saw him fall, but didn't see him before he pulled the trigger? How fast did he swing around to aim at and shoot this apparent bird? I'm very serious here... I want to understand how this happened.
1. Old man wearing bright orange jacket.
2. Quail.
3. Dick and a 28-gauge shotgun.
Dick hears a rustle, turns, aims at a quail, then, from being flat on the ground (so Dick could clearly see the bird) Harry pops up like a prairie dog just as Dick pulls the trigger?
Bizarre.
BTW, Cheney still thinks that not telling anyone anything for almost 24 hours was the right thing to do because "The accuracy was enormously important. I had no press person with me." I can see not allowing local law enforcement officials to interview you and keeping quiet will help preserve the truth.
But his "interview" (please, do you think Hume was allowed to ask anything not approved in triplicate prior to the meeting?) brings up more inconsistencies than understandable explanations. For instance:
Cheney said he drank a beer with lunch the day of the shooting, according
to his interview. The shooting took place about 5:50 p.m.
[Katherine] Armstrong had previously told CNN that she never saw Cheney
or Whittington "drink at all on the day of the shooting until after the accident
occurred, when the vice president fixed himself a cocktail back at the
house."
Then there's this:
The vice president added, "The image of him falling is something I'll never be able to get out of my mind. I fired and there's Harry falling."
He saw him fall, but didn't see him before he pulled the trigger? How fast did he swing around to aim at and shoot this apparent bird? I'm very serious here... I want to understand how this happened.
1. Old man wearing bright orange jacket.
2. Quail.
3. Dick and a 28-gauge shotgun.
Dick hears a rustle, turns, aims at a quail, then, from being flat on the ground (so Dick could clearly see the bird) Harry pops up like a prairie dog just as Dick pulls the trigger?
Bizarre.
BTW, Cheney still thinks that not telling anyone anything for almost 24 hours was the right thing to do because "The accuracy was enormously important. I had no press person with me." I can see not allowing local law enforcement officials to interview you and keeping quiet will help preserve the truth.
by MG at 5:43 PM
35 Comments:
This Accident, is a simple accident.
it is pure gossip not worth the print.
Not worth a headline.
Meanwhile; Al Gore's treasonous speech in Saudi Arabia is ignored!
( I bet he got at least $200,000.00 to trash us out)
Create more enemies overseas and undermine our troops!
Treason!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060213/ap_on_re_mi_ea/saudi_gore
"Accuracy"??
For crying out loud, how could it have taken 18 hours to ascertain that the events described happened?
"Yup, he's definitely been shot."
"Check again."
"Yup, he's still been shot."
"Hmm... do you think my gun did that?"
"etc"
God, even if I tried to, I couldn't string that out to anything like 18 hours. What a big fat crock of steaming shit. What next, "the dog ate our 9/11 investigative report"?
"The image of him falling is something I'll never be able to get out of my mind..."
Hey Deadeye Dick! See what you missed in Vietnam? See what you're missing now in the GWOT?
"...she never saw Cheney...drink at all on the day of the shooting until after the accident..."
Try downing a few more of them post-peppering cocktails, Deadeye. If a lifelong abuse of alcohol is good enough therapy for our troops, it's good enough for you.
Iggy,
Dick Cheney shot a 78 year old man - In the face, lol...still cracking up over stewart.
Fact is this - when you use a firearm - ANY firearm, you are taught to observe your field of view prior to shooting to avoid these types of accidents. He was careless, and as a result Whittington is in the hospital.
If Cheney was a private citizen, there could very easily be charges of criminal neglect put on him.
What will be interesting though is what happens if this old guy gets worse. 'Minor heart attack"? caused by the pellet migrating towards his heart? according to doctor's...
Then in other statements they used terms such as 'pepperred' & 'accidental shooting', etc....
I don't know about you, Mr dude - but I think the public isn't getting the 'full story'.
Why else woudl it take that long for him (dick) to hold a conference? When ever I have f*cked something up, and didn't want to get caught; I usually made sure my story was solid before telling anyone.
Oh - by the way, the last time I had to 'create' a story to get away it was back when I was 9 years old.
Even if it was a pure accident, whether or not alchohol was or wasn't involved - cheney stillmade a great error in judgement by firing before his field of view was certain...his fault, and he should be held responsible.
Could imagine if that 'minor heart attack' Whittington suffered, resulted in the old man checking in for the final curtain - then Cheney would be responsible for manslaughter, and likely he would get away with it. SICK!
I want to go vomit now . . .
Lord knows I've been pretty critical of Cheney on this. But Moxie, I gotta say the two main criticisms you offered here aren't right.
First, on the drinking issue. Armstrong said she didn't see Cheney or Whittington drinking during the day. Cheney admits to having a beer at lunch. That's not a contradiction or inconsistency. He very easily could have had a beer without her noticing--even if he wasn't trying to be covert about it or anything.
Second, on the seeing Whittington fall bit. It's entirely believable (actually, very likely) that it happened just like Cheney said. He was "target fixated" on the bird. Quail are pretty low flying, and the bird was most likely cruising completely horizontal. A shooter will typically "follow" a moving target with the barrell for a brief period to get the better shot . . . it's easier to hit a moving target if you follow through. So, when Cheney initially shouldered his weapon, and started his aim, it wasn't pointed at Whittington. But a second or so later, as he swept the gun in the direction the bird was flying, and when he finally pulled the trigger, it happened to be pointing at Whittington. It's like standing along the 3rd baseline and watching a pitcher throw the baseball. Follow the ball with your head & eyes . . . focus too much on the ball, and you won't even see the batter 'til you're looking right at him. Just to be clear, this is in no way a defense for Cheney . . . fact still remains that he knew (or should have known) that he was firing in an unsafe direction. Even if he didn't see where Whittington was specifically until after he pulled the trigger, he knew (by both his own admission, every witness account, and the police report) that another hunter was somewhere in that general direction, and therefore was grossly negligent in taking the shot.
But, I was amazed to hear him claim that the reason for letting Armstrong make the announcement was because "accuracy was enormously important". According to his "accurate" and "expert" source, the incident was Whittington's fault, caused insignificant damage, and is a "quite common" occurance. Nevermind the fact that Cheney himself now contradicts Armstrong (it wasn't Whittington's fault), the fact that the victim is still in the ICU & had (literally) life-threatening injuries, and even the NRA says it's incredibly rare. So much for accuracy.
Iggy: Non-issue, huh? So insignificant that it's just "gossip" and "not worth the print", huh? Since when is it "not worth a headline" when a sitting VP commits an act that could potentially get him prosecuted for criminal negligence?
Phil
Echoes in a Nomad's Head
BTW, this should interest sans in particular. The original reports said the shooting took place around 5:30. Sans questioned why it took over 2.5 hours to get Whittington to the hospital. Now, it's being reported as happening at 6:30, which would jive with the reports that the Sherriff's dept was called within "about an hour" (and which is on record), as well as be a more reasonable time to the hospital. But it also means that Cheney was hunting after sunset . . .
Ask any cop what 'I only drank one beer' means.
It means 'step out of the car.'
All speculation as to whether he was under the influence at the time is totally warranted foravoiding the police until the next day. We're talking about a man who has 2 DUI's already. The supposition in the media and the blogs is thus all Cheney's fault.
Furthermore, if Whittington had alcohol in his system, then Cheney lied today, and that would lend more credence to the theory that Cheney was impaired. Whitt's docs refused to comment whether he did or not.
It was an accident, ok. But this still is a big deal whether anyone wants to admit it or not.
Thee is no "theory" that there was alcohol involved, it is simply supposition and hate mongering.
There is little chance that there would have been a criminal charge, unless there was either intent, or recklessness. Irresponsible hunting does not meet the legal requirements of recklessness. besides, unless Texas is odd, there is no "criminally negligent assault," and absent any intent, it would be hard to even get a warrant, much less a prosecution.
Look, it happened. There was no criminal intent, and it was unfortunate, but not worth all the media hype. Anyone in combat arms (infantry, etc) will tell you that someone moving in your field of vision happens all the time. I am glad that Whittington is recovering.
Phil, those times are est, and it has info that is just wrong. it says: 7:20 p.m.: An ambulance takes Whittington to Christus Spohn Hospital Kleburg.
First, it was originally reported to have happened at 5:30 (6:30 est) but the secret service changed that story yesterday.
E&P: Late Tuesday, the Secret Service related that the shooting actually took place at 5:50 p.m. Saturday, 20 minutes later than previously stated--and therefore approaching the 6:18 sunset.
Many other reports incl whitt's docs on CNN said that Whittington did not arrive until 8:15, and he was transported by helicopter.
Here's a better timeline. All times are est also (1 hr later than TX)
Timeline Following Cheney's Hunting Mishap
By The Associated Press
6:30 p.m.: Cheney accidentally shoots fellow hunter Harry Whittington while aiming for a bird. Secret Service agents and medical personnel with Cheney tend to wounds on Whittington's face, neck and chest. (...)
9:15 p.m.: Whittington is flown to Christus Spohn Hospital Corpus Christi-Memorial and is treated in the intensive care unit.
Where's PETA?
Besides the accident, the poor birds being looked upon as only food!
Give it another 5 years and the left will have Thanksgiving outlawed too!
it was friends hunting, the guy was sprayed. Not like a shogun in the face; or worse, being seatbelt ridden at the bottom of the bay, waiting for help to arrive but does not show up until the next day.
"Meanwhile; Al Gore's treasonous speech in Saudi Arabia is ignored!
( I bet he got at least $200,000.00 to trash us out)
Create more enemies overseas and undermine our troops!
Treason!"
Iggy, the stuff you say gets more and more foolish as we go along here on this board. I doubt that Gore was paid anything for his input at the Jiddah Economic Forum. But even if he was, so what. What he did say in his talk was simply true. It was a solid attempt toward patching up the resentments that Arabs throughout the world are unquestionably feeling.The Bush adnministration has brought on those resentments with their blunderous acts and policies.
To say that Al Gore should be put to death, which is the penalty for your nearly weekly claim of treason committed by one "liberal" or another, is, as so frequently the case coming out of you, idiotic.
I honestly wish you would get just a little bit more of a handle on how completely off the reservation your are. You're absurd beyond words, really.
Below is some of what Al Gore had to say:
Sounds quite reasonable if you ask me.
“The thoughtless way in which visas are now handled, that is a mistake," Gore said during the Jiddah Economic Forum. "The worst thing we can possibly do is to cut off the channels of friendship and mutual understanding between Saudi Arabia and the United States."
Gore told the largely Saudi audience, many of them educated at U.S. universities, that Arabs in the United States had been "indiscriminately rounded up, often on minor charges of overstaying a visa or not having a green card in proper order, and held in conditions that were just unforgivable."
"Unfortunately there have been terrible abuses and it's wrong," Gore said. "I do want you to know that it does not represent the desires or wishes or feelings of the majority of the citizens of my country."
Meanwhile, Dick has been busy trying to quash the resulting questions about his having shot an old men in the face.
Cheney Plays Folsom Prison! ROFLMAO!!!!!!!
Hats off to Huffington Post!!
This is one of the funniest things I've ever seen/heard my whole life!!!
btw, Iggy you are the stupidest racist in denial sick fuck I've ever encountered.
Sans: Yeah, I noticed the EST after I linked to it. My bad.
But the time issue is really a non-issue. And there's not a contradiction in the ambulance/helocopter statements. Most reports I've seen (especially the early ones, though the newer ones seem to be leaving out a step) stated that Whittington was treated at the scene by medical personnel who were accompanying Cheney, then transported via ambulance to a hospital in Kingsville before being transferred (via helo) to Corpus Christi.
See here. 2.5 hours for that is a perfectly reasonable (actually, I'd almost say "quick") time frame for all of that, and shows that statements of him "leaving by ambulance" and "arriving by helocopter" are not contradictory.
I love it when all you bush apologists claim this is a non-issue. What was your stand about Clinton getting a bj? Oh yeah, that was a big issue. You fucking bunch of hypocrites.
Corpus Christi is only 60 miles from the ranch as the crow flies, or helicopter in this case. The hospital in Kingsville is a 30 mile drive along a rural highway (rt 77), directly along the route to Corpus Christi. A 30 mile helicopter flight takes about 15-20 minutes.
1 hour would still be about right to get him to the hospital under these circumstances. maybe another 30 minutes in 1st response prep and on and off loading, and that is being generous. If he was treated in Kingsville at all that might explain it, but there is no mention of that anywhere. It sounds like they would have had a helicopter waiting after a 30 minute ambulance ride from the ranch.
You don't find it odd they moved the secret service moved the time of the shooting back 20 minutes? I still fugure it took about an hour too long. When someone is shot in the chest and face you don't waste time.
btw, Iggy you are the stupidest racist in denial sick fuck I've ever encountered.
Racist how? No proof that I am, or for that matter an "Iggydude"
This comment coming from a frenchman, or a clit?
I don't know if you're racist or not (hell, most racists begin their piece with "I'm not a racist, but..."), I guess the assumption was made by your outburst that anyone suggesting we maybe shouldn't torture and bomb Arabs all willy-nilly must, in conclusion, be guilty of treason. I don't know if you are racist or not, but your post seems to indicate the usual slender grip on reality.
Trés amusement, as they say in that country you hate.
As harsh as it may sound, I could care less if Dick shot someone. It's more of a curiosity to me, something the pass the time with.
I'm more curious on how Iggy see's Al Gore's speech as "treasonous." I took the liberty of reading the news article you linked. After reading it I wonder if you actually read it. Please by all means show me where he has commited treason within the speech. Furthermore, how did his speech which called for unity between America and the Middle Eastern world create more enemies for me over here in Iraq?
Sans: You're assuming both ideal conditions and instant, coordinated action. Neither of which is likely, nor claimed. Let's look at the facts as presented along with some reasonable interpolation.
Assume the 5:30 originally reported is correct. Whitting is hit, and treated at the scene by a physician's assistant who is right there. Let's assume that the ambulance (which is back at the ranch house) is immediately notified and rolls, since that's not completely out of line (realistically, it'd be at least a couple minutes, but that's negligible). Now, we do not know for sure the precise distance from the ranch house to the scene. However, according to Cheney's interview, they had Whittington loaded up in the ambulance within 30 minutes. So, this brings us to 6:00pm, and means that there's a minumum of 15 minutes back to the ranch house (15 minutes for the ambulance to get to the scene, 15 minutes to get Whittington loaded up & secured). Assuming the ranch house is right at the "front gate" (that's a big assumption, BTW), that means the ambulance left the ranch at approximately 6:45, with a 30 mile journey to Kingsville. Considering this is a rural highway, reasonable estimate on travel time is 20 minutes. We're now at 7:05, and arriving at Kingsville hospital. There's going to be a minimum of 15 minutes while doctors at the hospital assess the situation and decide best course of action, so now we're at 7:20pm.
Now, I have seen some reports claiming that the doctor in Kingsville recommended superficial treatment & immediate release. These are unconfirmed reports, so we'll assume they're BS for this discussion. So, we're at 7:20, and the decision is made to transfer him to Corpus Christy. Considering Kingsville is a rather small town (population ~25,000 per the 2000 census), it is highly probable that the helo was coming out of Corpus Christi. So, once the call is made, figure 10 minutes to get the bird in the air, 20-25 minutes travel time to Kinsgville (bear in mind that while a medivac helo is capable of travelling at over 120 mph, it is rare that they do unless there is an immediate/imminent need for it, which this case did not warrant, according to all accounts--yes, it was a gunshot wound, but by all accounts it did not appear to be an immediately life threatening one. Additionally, we can not base time on a constant 120 mph speed, since it does not factor in accelleration or landing), which brings us to around 7:50-55. Negligible load up time, back in the air, and another 20-25 minutes.
So, we have arrival at around 8:10-20. Reported arrival time is 8:50 . . . not that far off. And bear in mind that much of this is "reasonable speculation", which means it is not unreasonable/unbelievable to be off by 30 minutes. It's also assuming a start time of 5:30, as originally reported, even though that was a rough estimate given by the witness. The fact the time changed to 5:50 does not indicate a cover up, but can easily be explained by the fact that the exact time was simply a "guestimate" made by witnesses, and later the official time was confirmed (I'm betting by using radio records, since the SS no doubt was immediately talking after the incident).
Now, as a semi-related aside, I want to point something out that backs up the fact that my numbers are in no way grossly out of line (they may even be on the speedy side). A few years ago, the PA system at my job came on announcing that "anyone parked in the lower parking lot needs to move their vehicles immediately." There was a recycling center accross the street from our facility, and one of the workers had gotten both legs crushed in one of the machines. He needed to be airlifted out, and they needed our lower parking lot to land the chopper. The hospital that the helo was dispatched from was approximately 30 miles from the facility (roughly the same as from Corpus Christy to Kingsville). From the time of the first announcement on our PA (pretty much a given that the call for the medivac had already taken place) until the helo touched down was just under 1 hour. Why it took that long, I don't know for sure. But the point is, your focus on the time "issue" is based on the assumption of absolutely ideal circumstances. And you're then using that incorrect assumption to draw the conclusion that there was some sort of cover up. I'm just trying to point out that the reported time frame is not unreasonable or unbelievable, and trying to make an issue out of it, quite frankly, gives the Cheney defenders fodder . . . it's easier to convince others to dismiss even legitimate criticisms if it's coming from a source that is shown to offer unreasonable criticisms.
Robert and iggy have both made their ignorant remarks about the forum where Al Gore spoke. Well, the name of the organization is the Jedda Economic Forum. They have been in existance since 2000. Here is some history about their very first forum and a bit about who spoke at that forum.
The theme of first Jeddah Economic Forum was ‘Sustainable Growth in a Global Economy’ and the two-day event was held from January 22-23 at Jeddah’s sumptuous Laylaty Ballrooms in partnership with the Centre of Business and Government and the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University. Officiating at the inaugural ceremony were HRH Prince Abdul Majeed Bin Abdul Aziz, Governor of Makkah Region, former USA President George W. Bush Snr., former Prime Minister of the UK John Major and leading Saudi businessmen including Walid Juffali, Chairman of E.A. Juffali & Brothers and Vice Chairman of JCCI, and Amr Dabbagh, Chairman of JIEC.
Day One, following the inaugural ceremony and keynote speech by former President Bush, focused on ‘Prospects for the World Economy’, conducted by Richard N. Cooper, Professor of Economics, Harvard University, ‘Outlook for Energy’, and ‘Attracting Foreign Investment’ both guided by Louis T. Wells, Professor at Harvard University.
Maybe this will give Chaney a back seat.
Bush did NOT lie.
I am listening to an interview with Bill Tierney.
He say's that ABC is not disclosing an accurate account of his interview.
He also claims that the "Goverment" did not keep tapes secret as ABC claims.
The Left News already adding spin.
Interview was on Http://www.coasttocoastam.com
This is real news.
Man, 3 Days of Bird Hunting News will give you a headache!
"obtained the tapes from Bill Tierney, a former member of a United Nations inspection team who translated them for the FBI. Tierney said the U.S. government is wrong to keep these tapes and others secret from the public. "Because of my experience being in the inspections and being in the military, I knew the significance of these tapes when I heard them," says Tierney. U.S. officials have confirmed the tapes are authentic, and that they are among hundreds of hours of tapes Saddam recorded in his palace office."
I am flabbergasted. The worshippers will ignore any crime their Deities commit.
The stupidity I see in some of these comments is well beyond the pale.
While I am willing to admit that maybe I just can't find the interview that Iggy is speaking of on this horrid website. (You linked to the front page, not the interview). I did type in the name of the man interviewed into the website search engine. I could only find two shows...one on March 27th 2003 and the other February 14th 2003. I'm not willing to call that up to date news.
Further more the guy Tierney does sound kind of like a religious nut, with god showing him the location of underground uranium factories and what not.
Let's look at your statement Iggy.
"He [Tierney] also claims that the 'Goverment' did not keep tapes secret as ABC claims."
Seems pretty straight forward...later in your post though..
"Tierney said the U.S. government is wrong to keep these tapes and others secret from the public."
Which is true Iggy? Oh btw I'm still waiting to hear how Al Gore's speech was treason.
To Phil:
I am ex-military, and your comment about how it happens all the time is complete and udder bullshit!
It doesn't happen all the time, it happens when someone is practicing undue care and negligence in their traing. It's absurd to think that random 'mishap' firings happen all the time, unless you are russian military (30-40% + casualty rate expeceted; just from training).
Don't classify morons (cheney) with the rest of us who are responsible as best we can be, and work for a living as opposed to killing and murdering people for profits!
to Iggy - man, seriously - you are making this too easy to discredit an opinion....are you related to Mclellan? just curious; cause the shit you spew is so incredibly DUMB.
Read a fuckin book you moron!
I find it amazing about the right wing how they are never willing to stop and say "hey, holy crap-maybe i'm wrong and there is a real opinion out there that is credible and just".
Cheney will totally get off scot-free, but what he should be getting is a serious investigation into the shooting; the delay in time in reporting it; and why.
When it smells of bullshit, it usually is bullshit.
apologies for the language, but now I am wound up and slightly inebriated....hell, if I was a vice-president of your great country, i might just find a 78 YEAR OLD MAN TO SHOOT IN THE CHEST AND FACE!!!!!
Go to hell, you facist right wing bastards, and quit defending your idol of evil!
P.S.
Fox news sucks!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/15/AR2006021502005.html
Letterman rules!(as well as Stewart, but we've all seen it already)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dReE6zbmH7U
&
Iggy Sucks...
"Meanwhile; Al Gore's treasonous speech in Saudi Arabia is ignored!
( I bet he got at least $200,000.00 to trash us out)
Create more enemies overseas and undermine our troops!
Treason!
-iggy dude
Gore, in his speech, simply stated what the world already knows. (That is, the world outside of those who remain as ignorant as iggy dude). The important part of what Gore stated is that the vast majority of the citizens of the US abhore the policies that have lead to the mistreatment of human beings in our country. That would be a good thing to tell the world about Americans, one might think. Those aren't treasoness words. Words that would lead to a death penalty--which is the possible sentence afforded to those who commit treason. Iggy tosses out that accusation of treason as easily as falling off a log.
This is some of what Al Gore said at the Jeddah Economic Forum:
"The thoughtless way in which visas are now handled, that is a mistake," Gore said during the Jiddah Economic Forum. "The worst thing we can possibly do is to cut off the channels of friendship and mutual understanding between Saudi Arabia and the United States."
Gore told the largely Saudi audience, many of them educated at U.S. universities, that Arabs in the United States had been "indiscriminately rounded up, often on minor charges of overstaying a visa or not having a green card in proper order, and held in conditions that were just unforgivable."
"Unfortunately there have been terrible abuses and it's wrong," Gore said. "I do want you to know that it does not represent the desires or wishes or feelings of the majority of the citizens of my country."
-Al Gore
I'm just wondering about - and testing - what the HTML tag 'a' is used for.
I see that my test post turned blue.
Here is an example something that iggy dude's Bill "this is real news" Tierney said about Abu Graib and how much fun torture can be.
Asked about Abu Ghraib, Tierney said that for an interrogator, ''sadism is always right over the hill. You have to admit it. Don't fool yourself – there is a part of you that will say, 'This is fun.' ''
Simon: Please try actually reading what I said. If you do, you will see that I stated the exact opposite of what you claim I said. Armstrong (Cheney's supposed "accurate and expert" witness) is the one who claimed this type of thing happens all the time. I pointed out that even the NRA says it's a very rare occurance, proving that Armstrong is full of shit (and so is Cheney, for claiming that she was the best choice for getting the word out "accurately").
I'll also bring your attention to the first thread on this topic, where I state (repeatedly and explicitly) that there is no such thing as a firearm "accident", only catastrophic results from stupidity & carelessness.
Cheney was absolutely, 100% negligent in this incident. And anyone who tries to claim otherwise is simply blind to reality because their head is stuck too far up Cheney's ass.
Yeah, apologies Phil - just sometimes after I have read some of the things Iggy writes....I start to twitch out of frustration...
No slam intended. Sorry dude, after reading the post you linked up - it is obvious you have a great point, and also have you sh*t together.
Cheers,
No prob, Simon. Misreads happen. And I can completely understand the frustration levels after reading Iggy's idiocy. :) Sorry if I responded harshly, as well.
Phil,
I do appreciate your taking a lot of time and effort to figure out the time frame. The stop in Kingsville was something I hadn't noticed before you pointed it out, and not knowing how long he may have been there may explain why it took 2:45 minutes.
Still, I believe you count the first 30 minutes twice in your scenario, and I guess you are assuming that the helo wasn't called for until after they arrived in Kingsville, which may be the case but I find that very unlikely.
Even if there was no helo and figuring on the 45 minutes or so it may have taken from the time of the shooting until they got on the highway, (30 minutes you refer to Cheney saying it took & 15 min or so to the Highway from there) it still seems to have taken a really long time. If the official report and Cheney's statements are true that the shooting occured at 5:30 that would put them 100 miles or so out at 6:15 not 6:45 as you came up with.
That leaves 2 more hours until he arrived in Corpus Cristi. Reported arrival time is 8:15 btw. That's a long frickin time period, and given all of the other circumstances surrounding this issue it is certainly reasonable to question the time frame. That's all I've done is question why it took so damn long.
Almost all helos can reach speeds around 200mph. Even the smallest/cheapest helos can cruise normally at speeds around 150mph.
I don't know about medevacs but I'd say 120 mph is a very conservative estimate. Military craft do twice that and then some.
Apparently he wasn't coptered out of the scene after being shot in the face. He was coptered from the small town hospital that he was originally driven to. Which, as the article I am linking to brings up, is very strange all things considered.
http://www.pnionline.com/dnblog/attytood/archives/002793.html
Yeah Kitt,
That's what Phil brought up. Apparently they drove the first 30-35 miles to a hospital in Kingsville, which is right along the way to Corpus Cristi. It's unclear whether he was treated there before getting helo'd the rest of the way. (another 30 miles or so)
There's too little known to get an idea what happened, but it apparently took 2:45 minutes from the time of the shooting to get to Corpus Cristi. That length of time just seems rediculous.
Armstrong and Cheney have made referrences to it being before dusk so many times, it seems possible they are fudging the timeline to cover for them illegaly hunting after dark.
I do buy Phil's speculation that the helo likely came from Corpus Cristi in the first place, so it seems natural that they would drive that direction to meet the helo at Kingsville, which is the only town along the way. But this was on rt 77. That is a highway in one of the the least dense parts of the state where I imagine 80 miles an hour is the normal cruising speed.
You'd think the ambulance wouldn't take 2 hrs to drive the whole way, and that's giving them 45 min just to pack him in and get going when Cheney's ambulance was nearby from the git go.
Maybe there's nothing to this and it just took that long, but it's deserving a look to find out. Someone in the media should be asking about it. The original call logs need to be released so we can know. If they don't release that info, it's a good indication they are full of it.
Wouldn't surprise me one bit.
OK, here's some answers. I haven't figured out why they called for the helo, then turned it away, and then called for it again, but most of the timeline gets filled in here. From this account, it looks like the shooting must have happened before 6, but the chain of events is strange to say the least. There seems to have been confusion about where to take him and how....
The Secret Service notified HALO-Flight dispatch about 6 p.m., putting the air ambulance service on standby in case Whittington needed to be flown to Christus Spohn Hospital Memorial, the area's trauma center, said HALO-Flight executive director Randy Rowe. Minutes later, Christus Spohn Hospital Kleberg in Kingsville, Texas, was notified that Whittington was en route.
Both Cheney's office and the Secret Service have said the decision to take Whittington to Kingsville first was made by medical personnel who travel with Cheney, who has a history of heart problems.
"I can't comment to why he wasn't flown," Zahren said. "The medical folks that were there would have weighed more into that than our people on the scene. Decisions were made on their advice at that point."
Whittington was taken by ambulance to the Kingsville hospital about 6:20 p.m., Zahren said.
"It was an ambulance on standby for the vice president's visit," Zahren said. "It had been dedicated and it was given up to treat the victim."
The ambulance arrived at the Kingsville hospital between 6:45 and 6:50 p.m., Christus Spohn spokeswoman Yvonne Wheeler said.
HALO-Flight was called again at 7:07 p.m. after Spohn Kleberg medical personnel decided Whittington needed more advanced treatment.
"Typically, why we get calls for transfers, is for a higher level of care or a doctor preference," Rowe said.
The air ambulance arrived at the Kingsville hospital at 7:29 p.m. and landed at the Corpus Christi trauma center at 8:19 p.m., Rowe said. Whittington was awake and talking during the flight, he said.
Also there's this bit of news about the Whittington's doctor.
Among the entirely unsatisfactory explanations offered up by Team Cheney after the boozed up Vice President shot an old man in the face then lied about it and blamed the victim, none is quite as wild as the discredited "migrating pellet" theory that got shot down relatively soon afterwards.I've been trying to figure out the genesis of this story -- Dr. David Blanchard seems to have implied that this happened when he spoke to the press, and it was further amplified by hospital spokesperson Michele Mora-Trevino. RJ Eskow has already noted that Blanchard is a right-wing evangelical Christian who has been downplaying Whittington's injuries from the get, and the New York Times today brings up the fact that a simple x-ray would have immediately told doctors that the pellets were not, in fact, "peppered" just under the skin. The story strongly insinuates that Blanchard's accounts have been extremely misleading....
Now it looks like this quack might have been Rush Limbaugh's doc...
Recently, the Iowa Board of Medical Examiners took the following action:
David E. Blanchard, D.O., a 49 year-old physician currently practicing in Victoria, Texas was charged by the Board with inappropriately prescribing excessive controlled substances to numerous patients. A hearing in this matter is set for September 13, 2000.
hmmmm?
So some of my questions got answered, but new ones just keep popping up to take their place.
lol
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