Buzzword of the Day: MURTHA
I like this guy.
An influential House Democrat who voted for the Iraq war called Thursday for the immediate withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq, another sign of growing unease in Congress about the conflict.
"It is time for a change in direction," said Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., one of Congress' most hawkish Democrats. "Our military is suffering, the future of our country is at risk. We cannot continue on the present course. It is evident that continued military action in Iraq is not in the best interests of the United States of America, the Iraqi people or the Persian Gulf region."
House Republicans assailed Murtha's position as one of abandonment and surrender, and accused Democrats of playing politics with the war. "They want us to retreat. They want us to wave the white flag of surrender to the terrorists of the world," Speaker
Dennis Hastert, R-Ill., said in a statement.
Murtha estimated that all U.S. troops could be pulled out within six months. A decorated Vietnam veteran, he choked back tears during his remarks to reporters.
Murtha's comments came just two days after the Senate voted to approve a statement that 2006 "should be a period of significant transition to full Iraqi sovereignty" to create the conditions for the phased withdrawal of U.S. forces.
In recent days, President Bush and other top administration officials have lashed out at critics of the war and have accused Democrats of advocating a "cut and run" strategy that will only embolden the insurgency.
Vice President Dick Cheney jumped into the fray Wednesday by assailing Democrats who contend the Bush administration manipulated intelligence on Iraq, calling their criticism "one of the most dishonest and reprehensible charges ever aired in this city."
Murtha, a Marine intelligence officer in Vietnam, angrily shot back at Cheney: "I like guys who've never been there that criticize us who've been there. I like that. I like guys who got five deferments and never been there and send people to war, and then don't like to hear suggestions about what needs to be done."
Referring to Bush, Murtha added: "I resent the fact, on Veterans Day, he criticized Democrats for criticizing them."
by MG at 4:49 PM
31 Comments:
He is (**SNURK**) a BAD MURTHA.
Murtha estimated that all U.S. troops could be pulled out within six months.
Six months? Come on, if they just drop their gear and run they'll be out in a couple of days--and once again flowers will grow along Euphrates and Tigris.
Seriously, though, one thing I don't get about the left's position on Iraq is the insistance on immediate withdrawl despite the claim that we've made Iraq a base for terrorists. I can accept that Iraq has become (more of) a training ground for terrorists, but how does leaving Iraq as a base for terrorists make America safer?
I think you're right, dog-person. We're stuck there. We're on the sidelines for the next generation running a daycare center in the desert. (A daycare center with bombs.)
Murtha's dig on Cheney is totally appropiate. After all,Chicken-hawks got us into this shit. Five deferments: never been there, never done that...
Total lack of empathy for the suffering of troops with a lack of proper equipment, inadequate manpower, and a total lack of post war planning.
No apology! What-so-ever! Typical neo-com strategy. Attack-Attack-Attack. No criticism tolerated!
However, since we broke Iraq, we have to fix it! So we have to stay the course for now!
Very sad, because we will be paying the price for generations.
Meanwhile, health and other social programs in America will suffer, while defense contractors will enjoy!
To pull out would be a disaster; for Iraqis and a dishonor to the fallen.
The truth of the matter is that there is a lot of good going on in Iraq.
You will not see this on the mainstream news.
First off, the mainstream focuses on the mayhem, the death and destruction; it sells.
Secondly, they follow the troops. It would be military plunder to a waste troops in peaceful areas of Iraq.
Bottom line is you don't see most of the good in Iraq.
Rebuilding of schools, roads, public libraries etc.
Michael Yon, was the first, and ONLY blogger who was able to bluff his way into Iraq under press status. He has traveled to extensively in Iraq and claims there's a lot more good than bad.
On another note; the Nations who did not back us; it turned out that they were the ones involved in the Food for oil scam. Germany, France and Russia.
France caved into the extremist's and look what happened. They are paying for it because the extremist's do not know peace, they see it as a sign of weakness.
Bush has been kicking the terrorist's ass.
http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/2005/10/purple-fingers_24.html
I've been against the Iraq war from the beginning, and absolutely feel that we need to get our troops out in a timely manner. But, I also realize that we've made our bed and need to sleep in it. An immediate, full pull-out now will undoubtedly result in turning Iraq into another Afghanistan (after the Soviet pull-out).
We shouldn't cut and run. But we do need to have a plan in place for bringing the troops home. We need to establish clearly set goals and objectives that will allow us to pull our troops out as the Iraqis take over their roles for themselves. That's something that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and the other hawks all demanded of Clinton in Bosnia, and it's something that needs to be done in Iraq. Without such a list of objectives and goals, our troops will never come home. There needs to be a plan. But then again, planning isn't really one of W's strong points.
Phil
http://nomadechoes.blogdrive.com
Of course, we can't pull out because then the terrorists will see it as a "win" for them. And of course to empower the enemy in any way would be a disaster for American morale and a serious blow to the war on terror -just like in Korea and Vietnam where we couldn't pull out because the commies would take over the world. Ergo, we have to keep the troops in Iraq because we don't want to let the world (especially the terrorists and the FRENCH!) know we have a small penis.
I personally think we're screwed either way. Damned if we pull out and damned if we don't pull out. As much as republicans resent the use of the word "quagmire" I feel this aptly describes the situation currently facing not only America but also Iraqis who will be affected by whatever decision is made.
I do like how many supporters of the current administration are telling us that a democracy isn't built in a day. Funny that some of the same people who say this presently are also the people who said we would be in Iraq for weeks and not months or months instead of years.
Murtha is right.
We've accomplished every moving objective chimpy has laid out for this war.
remove saddam's WMD's- check (were none)
capture saddam- check
regime change- check (new Iraqi gov't installed)
spread freedom- check (2 elections already)
victory- check (mission accomplished may 1 2003)
We won the goddamn war already. Our soldiers are heroes. Let's bring them home now.
The UN and many many other countries have pledged troops $ and resources for Iraq's reconstruction, but chimpy can't get over those who wouldn't support this war.
Just like Joe Wilson, the French and Germany were right. We never should have started this mess in the first place, but is haliburton so goddam important that we can't share the load. Hell no.
And as for iggy's stupid talking point about the oil for food program, US companies incl haliburton have been caught with their hands in that cookie jar too.
If you paid attention to what Murtha said, we should move our troops to border areas like Kuwait and maybe maintain a presence in the Kurdis territories, and let Iraq handle it.
It's certainly doable.
http://instapundit.com/archives/026902.php
WHY IS MURTHA'S STATEMENT ON THE WAR NEWS when he said basically the same thing a year and a half ago? This is from May 6, 2004:
Signaling a new, more aggressive line against the Bush administration’s policy on Iraq, Rep. John Murtha (Pa.), the House Democrats’ most visible defense hawk, will join Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) today to make public his previously private statements that the conflict is “unwinnable.”
And he's the Democrats' hawk? (Via The Corner).
The answer for ending the Iraq conflict has always been right in front of everyone . I said it the day after Bush did his TOP GUN show and declared the war over.
Turn the fuckin country over to the United Nations. That solves everyones problems. Of course, it would also kill the Bush/Cheny cash cow.
iggy dude, how do you know pulling out would hurt Iraq? Are you buying the line from the same administration that sold us the WMD bill of goods?
On Murtha, I could just give him a big fat kiss.
Blog on Mox.
Oh, and Iggy, Murtha went to Iraq to scope it out first hand. With a whole career in the Marines, I think he is qualified to judge. Do you own the same experiences and credentials?
Hell yeah Seal,
Thank you!
That's exactly what I've been saying all along too. It aint gonna happen as long as Bolton is over ther fucking everything up. The US never should have went to Iraq without the UN.
So what have our troops been doing there for the last two years if not training Iraqis to take care of business themselves? Other than getting killed pointlessly, of course. How long is basic training for our military? 6 weeks? They've had two years. Ball's in their court now.
He's a bad Murtha-... Shut yo' mouth! Just talkin' 'bout Murtha!
I couldn't resist.
We can't give it to the UN.
THe UN is USELESS!
They were making matters worse, the UN is not just one corrupt rich leader, but many.
Besides the Food for oil scam, their pockets are deep.
Why do you think the UN helped push live 8 for aid to Africa. (and tickets were FREE!)
Because they (Africa) have no money to pay for drugs or services.
Live 8 was to pressue the World into giving good money to Africa. (Poor Gandoff]s heart was played like a fiddle)
Now they have money, all the big drug companies step in to fill their pockets with good money, meanwhile they test new drugs on Africans and make big bucks.
THe UN is not an answer.
This aren't always a simple as they appear.
"it's for the children is the worlds biggest lie"
The UN wants our internet too!
Yes, we do own it. We made it with our taxes paid to DARPA.
Hey everyone wants our Men and Women home.
Bush know this too.
oh BTW:
Clinton was after Saddam too.
We attacked them with Cruise Missiles in 1998.
Clinton ADMITTED letting Usama Bin Laden get away.
"I begged the Saudies, to take him; we had nothing to hold him on"
Well, he knew too, or why would he beg the Saudies.
Bush got more than he could chew on 911.
We should at least support our President and treat him as any other human.
I guess we need to kill some more young Americans to honor the rest of the young Americans already killed. Circle logic and stupid...get us out of Iraq NOW!
horsedooty
Why did we go to war in Iraq? According to our dear leader, WMD! Period. Not to depose a bad leader, not to spread democracy. That all came later. Now that the world knows (and most knew all along) that there were no WMD's, our military is fighting an insurgency. Who the fuck is the insurgency? Iraqi's. Jesus God, now that we have in place a "truly democratic" government over there, can't we trust them to welcome all their Iraqi brothers and sisters with open arms? Can't we just say to the Iraqi leaders, "hey, it's your country, your citizens and your oil!,now do with it as you please!"? Isn't it time to get rid of this "John Wayne toilet paper" attitude that this country has, "wer're rough, and tough, and we ain't going to take no shit off no one"? The only way in my opinion to finally end this senseless bullshit, is for a real leader to step forward, eat some crow and ask the world to join us in bringing stability to the mideast region. Enough of this bullshit that we can do it alone. Of course I could be wrong. Back to you Jane.
I noticed several vociferous critics of the war and Bush (really, one's just a route to the other), say that despite all of their misgivings we have no choice but to finish the job. Congratulations to those of you who said this; unless you're currently in Iraq you're now chickenhawks. The rest of you have yet to explain how Iraq will be safer, and by extension America, if it is left to the terrorists. Congratulations, you've just forsaken the safety of your countrymen in order to defeat your bogeyman.
Republicans may be getting all the bad press right now, but I seriously doubt Americans trust the left very much either.
Well, they sure seem to agree with the left on everything.
"Republicans may be getting all the bad press right now, but I seriously doubt Americans trust the left very much either."
So that is one sad state of affairs for everybody.
I love it when Dick gets involved. He just tosses that 19% body fat around like he doesnt care. Wait, where was DC during Vietnam? What a tool. Republicans need to stop playing war games. Remember, actual people are involved. Its more than some statistic on their computer screens.
The best part of the whole war thingy is... that FRANCE was RIGHT. Haha.. stupid fat Americans. The French had better (more?) intelligence than Bush Co. Now that is funny. I think Jacques Chirac is owed an apology.
Does it mean anything to you "stay the fucking course" nimrods that over 80% of Iraqis say they want us out? Also, everyone of you love that word "terrorists" when speaking of who it is we are fighting in Iraq. The fact is a lot of the people we are fighting in Iraq are everyday Iraqis who want us out. Who can blame them. If 150,000 Iraqis were blowing through and my town and armed to the teeth I would fight in an unwanted and unwarranted occupation I would fight back too.
USA...get the fuck out of Iraq...now!
It's been two and a half years now. There's a grand total of ONE measly Iraqi battalion that is capable of operating without the U.S. forces holding their hand. Obviously if the Rebels are going to be stamped out it is going to have to be the U.S. that does it, the Iraqis aren't up to it and most of the Iraqi puppet troops are in it entirely for the paycheck and have no desire to fight other Iraqis especially since their own families even see them as puppets of the occupier. There has never been nearly enough troops in Iraq since day one. They have averaged about 140,000 U.S. troops in country, sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less. A good rule of thumb is that to occupy a country that restive one needs roughly 10,000 troops for every million population, so in this case about 280,000 U.S. troops in the country, about twice what they're averaging, minimum, in order to do what Bush wants them to do which is stamp out the Rebels. They're not going to do it with 140,000 or 160,000 troops; as it is the Rebels have only gotten stronger and more skilled so far and the U.S. forces in Iraq can't contain them. These little pinprick operations like "Steel Curtain" and "Raging Bull" are, predictably, having little effect. But it seems that's the most the troops can manage at this point. So there are really only two choices: One, double the size of the U.S. force in Iraq and try to get a handle on this Insurgency, or two, get all the troops out of there as soon as possible. Since it is pretty apparant they aren't going to send and keep 280,000 or more troops in Iraq, the only realistic option is to get the hell out.
hey Iggy Dude:
If "Bush got more than he could chew on 9/11" it's because he and his ilk are the ones who set the table and made the dinner.
Ever wonder why the steel debris from the WTC was hauled away as quickly as possible and shipped out to China and India to be melted down before anyone could analyze it?
Ever wonder why there were no airliner wings, or tail section, or fuselage on the lawn of the Pentagon?
Ever wonder why the "airliner" that hit the Pentagon didn't hit it one the side from which it was approaching, instead circling around to crash into the part that was under renovation at the time with much fewer military personnel present, which also "just happened" to be the part that was the farthest point in the Pentagon from where Rumsfeld and the top military brass were located, and the part it crashed into also "just happened" to be the part of the Pentagon that was heavily [structurally] reinforced not long before 9/11 so a fire there wouldn't spread elsewhere in the building?
Ever wonder why the Pentagon, seat of the Dept. of Defense and well-equipped with surface-to-air missile (SAM) launchers fired no SAMs in its own defense?
Ever wonder how the Twin Towers each telescoped straight down into their footprint in nine seconds, at freefall rate or more than ten floors "collapsing" per second?
Ever wonder why the wrong one "collapsed" first?
Ever wonder how several "9/11 hijackers" turned up alive and well several days later?
Ever wonder why Bush was allowed to stay in that elementary school for almost an hour, meaning he and his Secret Service chief knew he was not even a possible target on 9/11?
Ever wonder how the "airliner" that struck the South Tower pulled high G-force turns that a real airliner won't do?
Ever wonder why there were large hot spots under the WTC rubble, still hot weeks later, consistent with massive use of thermite explosives?
Ever wonder why the world's most expensive Air Force on that one particular day didn't do jack or shit to prevent those "airliners" from reaching their targets even though they had a total of an hour and twenty minutes, way more than enough time?
Ever wonder why the S.E.C. doesn't consider it a pressing enough matter to try to find out who placed record amounts of "put" orders on the stock of United Airlines, American Airlines and Morgan Stanley-Dean Witter in the week just before 9/11?
Ever wonder just who forewarned Willie Brown, the mayor of San Francisco, and other prominent individuals to avoid flying and the World Trade Center on 9/11, and why the F.B.I. isn't concerned with finding out who warned them?
Excellent questions DF, but I would be remiss if I didn't ask that you provide links - everyone must cite their sources so we can see where it's coming from. :)
I'll be glad to.
Regarding the steel debris:
http://www.the7thfire.com/9-11/Pastore_Investigation_of_%209-11/chapter_13--collapse_of_the_WTC.htm
http://greens.org/s-r/30/30-16.html
http://sept11.wasteage.com/ar/waste_world_trade_center_2/index.htm
As for the original hole in the Pentagon and the lack of wings, tail section etc., see:
http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/erreurs_en.htm
As for a mention of the "coincidences" of where the "airliner" struck the Pentagon, it was even mentioned inadvertantly in the mainstream media:
http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/disinfo/deceptions/abc_nosurvivors.html
As for no SAMs being fired:
http://www.rense.com/general18/inadditiontojets.htm
as well as being common sense in that if they fired SAMs and hit the "airliner" it would've changed the whole outcome of the Pentagon crash and if they missed the SAMs would have landed in someone's townhouse and certainly would've made the news.
As for the Twin Towers [& WTC # 7] controlled demolitions, here's some great video footage:
http://www.plaguepuppy.net/public_html/collapse%20update/#videos
http://www.globalresearch.ca.myforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=523
http://www.reopen911.org/pictures_and_videos.htm#Painful
http://wtc.macroshaft.org/mov/
http://www.911review.org/Wiki/Sept11Videos.shtml
http://www.wtc7.net/
...and for some discussions from an engineering point of view, and as to how the laws of physics rule out everthing else BUT a controlled demolition as the cause of the "collapses":
http://www.serendipity.li/wtc.htm
http://members.surfeu.fi/11syyskuu/soldier5.htm
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/november2004/121104easilywithstood.htm
As for the South Tower "collapsing" first when it was hit later and thus burned for a shorter amount of time, this is common knowledge and any 9/11 timeline will state that the South Tower "fell" exactly 30 minutes before the North Tower.
As for several accused "9/11 hijackers" turning up alive later, see:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm
http://www.worldmessenger.20m.com/alive.html
http://www.welfarestate.com/911/
Also there were no Arabs anyway on Flight 77, see:
http://www.sierratimes.com/03/07/02/article_tro.htm
As for Bush's timeline, I should have been more accurate; the best estimate available has him getting to Sarasota airport at 9:47 but puts him staying at that school for about 35 minutes after hearing of the second plane crash [which still proves because he was not immediately whisked away to a safer place that he and his Secret Service chief knew he was not even a possible target, so 35 minutes or almost an hour, either way it's damning; it was about 34 and a half minutes longer than it would have been if they thought he MIGHT even be a target], for a timeline of Bush on that morning see:
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/main/essayaninterestingday.html
As for the "airliner's" impossible G-force maneuvering, see:
http://proliberty.com/observer/20040509.htm
http://www.cosmicpenguin.com/911/bradm/911index/WTC.html
And I think Col. Donn de Grand Pre dicusses this matter among several other 9/11 matters in an interview:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/022904degrand.html
As for the hot spots and thermite, see:
http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html#anchor1208442
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc_hotspots.html
http://www.worldaffairsbrief.com/keytopics/september11.shtml
As for the Air Force's impotence on 9/11:
http://www.standdown.net/
http://inn.globalfreepress.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=387
http://www.flight93crash.com/flight93_military_faq.html
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0331-11.htm
http://www.welfarestate.com/wtc/af-scramble.txt
As for the "put" options on the stock [which it turns out the S.E.C. claims to be "investigating" and, big surprise, still hasn't found the culprits over four years later, even though the C.I.A. has software called PROMIS that tracks stock sales to red-flag suspicious transactions, so the file on this matter is definitely collecting dust], see:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/june2005/140605tenquestions.htm
(It is just one of the ten glaring points made in this particular link)
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/12_06_01_death_profits_pt.1.html
http://www.geocities.com/dreamingbones/911.html
As for the forewarning of Willie Brown and others, see:
http://www.rense.com/general66/pre11.htm
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2001/09/12/MN229389.DTL
http://911research.wtc7.net/sept11/warnings.html
And here's a couple other links on 9/11...
WTC security courtesy of Marvin Bush:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/911security.html
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0204-06.htm
A list of all the "coincidences" of 9/11 someone must make themself believe were just coincidences in order to believe the "official" 9/11 fairy tale:
http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2004/08/coincidence-theorists-guide-to-911.html
Some good all-around websites about the 9/11 inside job:
http://www.serendipity.li/
http://www.question911.com/
http://www.911weknow.com/
Also I forgot to mention the Naudet brothers' ameteur video footage of the crash into the North Tower. In watching it it's plain to see it was no Boeing 757 that hit it.
http://911blimp.net/vid_Naudet.shtml
http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/prod/dialspace/town/pipexdsl/q/aqrf00/whwtc1/
Another good all-around 9/11 inside job site is:
http://911blimp.net/
Thanks, DF, you know someone would have asked you anyway. :)
Oh, of course. I would've posted them last night when I wrote in but it was so late at night already, actually one something in the A.M.
Here's a few more.
F.B.I. seizes the tape from the video camera at a gas station across the street from the Pentagon 5 minutes after the crash:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2001/12/1211_wirepentagon.html
http://www.uscrusade.com/forum/config.pl/noframes/read/779
Fake Osama bin Laden "confession" tape:
http://www.welfarestate.com/wtc/faketape/
http://911blimp.net/vid-fakeOsamaVideo.shtml
http://www.americanfreepress.net/12_21_01/Bin_Laden_Video/bin_laden_video.html
http://www.globalconspiracies.com/fake_2001_osama_bin_laden_video_tape.htm
http://www.geocities.com/muslimtruthAQSA/Video_Fake.html
Fake bin Laden tape easy to make say special-effects technicians:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/MOR112A.html
http://www.rense.com/general18/ez.htm
A correction to one of the addresses. The fourth one in the above post should instead read:
http://911blimp.net/vid_fakeOsamaVideo.shtml
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